MATIC: I wouldn’t especially single out the current situation of the media. I could only call it so alarming that swift action is necessary from media, non-government organisations and democratic political parties. Of course it was a lot worse both for media and for the public during the bombing, but what’s disturbing right now is that the repression has begun on two fronts. First we had the frequency licence competition. For the electronic media this played the same role as did the later Public Information Act for print media, and the current revival of this issue, in the form of a Federal Telecommunications Ministry decree on electronic media, beginning with the banning of Radio Boom 93 and the targeting of other radio stations warns of a final frontal attack. We have never had simultaneous attacks on independent electronic and print media before. This time there is an obvious resolve to settle the score with domestic independent media once and for all. This is clearly proven by the strategic positioning of the most prominent party members from the ruling coalition, from Aleksandar Vucic, to Goran Matic and Ivan Markovic.

The scenario we’re seeing now will head more or less in that direction. However I believe that we will be able to defend ourselves again, that we’ll once again find a mechanism which will help us provide information to the citizens of Serbia and Yugoslavia the way we and other independent media have done for the past ten years. I’m convinced of that. What concerns me a little is that a serious number of outlets may have to be closed down before we gather the energy necessary to save the remaining ones so that they continue to function the way they have functioned so far. The question is how great the sacrifice will be, whether we will manage to arouse public interest in a constructive way to prevent the repression which has obviously been prepared.

KOJADINOVIC: It’s to-be-or-not-to-be for them now. Of course in the past ten years we’ve had a number of similar situations in which the independent media mostly lost this unfair battle. However, to judge by Studio B, it seems to me that at the moment the independent media are stronger than ever, primarily because they are much more important than they have been before. In the period between 1990 and 1995 there were a lot of independent media and perhaps people did not understand how important they were but today, when it has come down virtually to fifteen or sixteen outlets, twenty at the most, it becomes clear that each closedown of a free media outlet is the amputation of a very important achievement in democracy and freedom, and the shutting down of each outlet heralds the shutting down of the next. The situation is difficult but I think it’s important that the regime has finally realised that the whole thing has come to an end, that they now have to fight at any cost. They have realised that the end is at hand and I think that this is a chance, not only for the independent media but for all people who are fighting in some way for a better life, who are fighting for democracy, freedom or simply for basic human dignity.

MILIVOJE GLISIC, NIN columnist: The independent media and less government-oriented media are now perhaps in their worst situation so far. All non-government media are a nuisance to the government, a nuisance to the regime. The regime is nervous and is behaving accordingly to all media: they are so nervous that they are using brute force. We’ve seen a break-in at Studio B, which is a nuisance because it’s not in their hands, the regime is preparing to take over Belgrade, they’ve even called tenders for the decoration of Kalenic market place, only so that they can in some way be again involved in Belgrade matters and take the city over later. They have even gone so far as some kind of occupation of Vecernje novosti, which had recently gone soul searching and tried to be objective, not critical of the regime, only objective. This is the proof of the regime’s terrible nervousness, but it’s a good sign as well, if we are able to speak about anything good at all, it’s a sign that the elections are close and that’s why the nervousness has increased, especially about the media, because the media should play a role in those elections, serve the regime before the elections, and that’s a sign that the elections are close.

SIMONOVIC: I think that at the moment they are in the most difficult situation to date because ever form of repression of the society has increased and it was never at this level; of course the insecurity of every citizen has increased and so we journalists, as citizens, are in the same position. It is especially visible in the media, not only because of the threats of execution by senior state officials but also because there is a threat of pushing us into bankruptcy with a series of convictions and sentences, there’s a danger of us losing printing firms because we’re forced to print our papers in state print houses, we have to buy vast amounts of paper abroad because there’s not enough paper produced domestically, which means that we have arrived at a position of closing for financial reasons. Only the public helps us, by continuing to buy our papers and the people are poorer and poorer every day, they can’t afford to buy a newspaper which could cost eight dinars when they’re forced to stand in milk queues from 4.00 a.m. until 6.00 a.m. when the shops open.

DMITROVIC: The background is political and the background is related to the intention of Milosevic - the intention of the Socialists and the ruling coalition - to take over power in cities like Belgrade, Novi Sad and Nis. With the Local Self-Management Act they can do it overnight, they can do it within an hour, but then they would face resistance, the resistance of the public, the resistance of political parties, which could be carried out through local media, in this case through Studio B. As far as I know, let’s use the unofficial sources cliché, Milosevic and his circle of people in charge of that kind of tactics plan, in the case of Belgrade, to produce some kind of chaos in the city, there’s already traffic chaos and I’m afraid they’ve prepared some other measures even more drastic than the ones already seen in the streets of Belgrade. Of course they’re being helped in this to a great extent by the local Belgrade authorities which could certainly do a lot better, but that’s another story. Simultaneously with that they will denounce the Belgrade authorities as criminals and have them arrested, there’ll be files opened. That’s what they’re up to, in my opinion. At the same time they’ll take over Studio B and spend several days showing the people the kind of local authorities they have had in Belgrade. They’ll say "The authorities were such and such but we’ll fix all that now," and they’re really able to bring in two or three hundred new buses by pulling them in from other locations, cleaning up the city, decorating facades and after a while, it could be up to two or three months, let’s say in the autumn, they’ll organise local elections on the assumption that they can win Belgrade.

ZARKOVIC: Back then the sense of helplessness was, it seems to me, less. I would say that Serb society and Serb politics in general appeared more rational and that there was opposition and even some civilised style, but I’m afraid these things are being lost now. I’m not among those who weigh the influence of the international community on domestic circumstances, but it is evident that the West, by completely isolating Serbia and issuing a warrant for Milosevic’s arrest, by posting his picture on matchboxes, as I’ve heard, has completely ruled out any possibility of influencing Milosevic. There was a time during those diplomatic negotiations and trade-offs between Milosevic and Holbrooke, or previous negotiators, when the question of the media and the freedom of the media was on the table, they traded and bought something with it. You don’t have that now, it’s simply a question of the balance of naked power, not political power but naked power. That’s why I think this feeling of helplessness has grown and the independent media are living by the logic of "As long as it lasts, it lasts," simply because there is no end to this violence anywhere on the horizon. Even this latest case of Studio B shows the fire-fighter response of the Serbian opposition, gathering in Beogradjanka in record time at the first sign of flames but going no further. Their statement sounded to me along the lines of "Next time something like this happens we’ll meet again". The opposition can simply no longer make any rational move either.

ZARKOVIC: I think that the ground on which the political struggle is being fought should be changed. I have the impression that Serbia’s political life is being exhausted on the media. The media are very important for political life, but we now have a phenomenon in which, and I’m not exaggerating here, seventy per cent of party statements relate to media. We have people in power at the moment who accuse the media of everything, there is even that crucial accusation of treason and being an accessory in the NATO bombing while, on the other side, the opposition defends the media from all that and I don’t see any political fight in Serbia about, for example, electoral rolls, extraordinary elections, the situation in Kosovo, the position of health workers, our children being crippled by education, but they are fighting for the media. In such a situation it is natural that the media are the ones to suffer because we are on the grindstone between two political powers and, instead of being witnesses of a political struggle which has thousands of reasons to spark it, from the local to the federal level, major issues of the country’s survival are being raised, we are essentially witnessing a struggle being fought on the fringes of what we could call the current interests and that it is the struggle for the media. The media are important, but I think that the ground has been changed here and we are being exhausted in a media war of which, basically, the only victims in the end could be the media themselves.

DMITROVIC: There’s a lot of dishonour among the parties and the media too. With the authorities and the regime media you have corrupt people, but on the other side you have a similar thing, those who belong to the anti-war lobby or have good patronage or are connected to the opposition parties. I’m not saying what the regime says, that they’re NATO mercenaries or that they want bombing, but they haven’t spoken or written as harshly about the opposition and others as they have deserved.

It’s a big topic. I should ask, you know, "What opposition?" because we have no opposition here in any classical sense. If there had been, Milosevic would not be in power. The last elections he won were those in 1992, Milosevic has lost all subsequent elections but remained in power. As far as Studio B goes, the Serbian Renewal Movement which controls Studio B, I mean let’s be frank here, let’s take the gloves off: only in the last month or two has the Renewal Movement realised what this is all about and what developments can bring. Studio B can be saved only if it turns into the people’s television, only if they completely open it, with programs in which somebody will criticise the Renewal Movement; if the Renewal Movement and Studio B are going for a 10:0 ratio, but with opposite polarity, they’ll have a hard time defending Studio B as their own television, but if the people feel that it’s their own television, the last window through which the sun can be seen, they’ll defend it. Vuk and the so-called opposition would be able to appear on Studio B and say "Gather today at noon, as many of you as there are," and they could defend Studio B. And they’d be able to say "It’s your television, people, this television belongs to Belgrade, this is the television that will show you everything, even somebody criticising the Serbian Renewal Movement". That’s the only winning formula: you can’t fight them with their own methods, they’re playing rough, they’re going for the man, kicking him in the shins, they want to kneecap him - that works only in an open conflict, but that open conflict has still not begun: you have to fight in a different way in order to win over the people.

GLISIC: Those who are prepared to become social and political workers are not journalists in the good old sense of the world and they are especially not independent journalists. We want to be engaged socially and we are, I hope, doing a relatively useful job for society, if there’s anybody left to appreciate this job, but we’re doing it seriously, critically, there’s no other way than a critical approach to reality, as the Communists would say. And we will not, of course, and do not agree to be the mouthpieces of the regime and so be treated as doing a useful job for society. And it’s a empty rhetoric to call us the mouthpieces of the opposition. I’m speaking in NIN’s name: we try to present the whole public and social scene, we are as critical of the opposition as we are of the regime: we criticise anyone to the extent they deserve. But we need changes and, as far as we can see, only the opposition wants those changes: the regime does not agree to change. So we have to be on the side of change; if that means we are on the opposition’s side then so be it, but we are primarily on the side of changes which will bring social improvements.

ZARKOVIC: But that’s only a conclusion. I don’t believe we’re able to produce anything which would objectively improve our position. It’s obvious that the authorities are more concerned about the electronic media and I think that it is simply easier to manipulate frequencies, licences, jurisdiction, forms of ownership and so on, but somewhere in the background at the moment there’s a disaster looming for the print media as well because the public doesn’t know enough. For example they don’t know that newsprint imports have been more tightly controlled, that you have to have a licence - and you know who can get that - that the Matroz factory is working on quotas again; there are two levels of prices, the market price and the privileged prices, and even if you pay full price they ask whether you have a quota. I think we should try to obtain resources; we’ve had Energy for Democracy, let the people we’re accused of working for give us Paper for Democracy. We have to seek tangible forms of solidarity and assistance and we must use the fear that the media will be shut down, that people will be beaten or murdered, we must make that fear our ally because at this point the fear just might force the media into rational behaviour, to seek rational forms of survival, unity, solidarity and to lift what’s known as their professional attitude, so that journalists think and report with cooler heads - yes, we’re part of this environment too, if it affects Milosevic it affects us more because we are weaker than he is, people have no money. I think that the abolition of sanctions would be of real assistance to the Serbian media, but that won’t happen of course.

MATIC: Certainly part of the effect the regime has produced with this repression is that they are putting into the opposition’s hands the possibility of the media being closer to them, by simply feeling more protected that way, especially in the rest of Serbia, especially the local media. I think that when it comes to the capital, Belgrade, the situation is somewhat different: in one way the independent media are so strong that the opposition parties should be joining them and not the other way round. I really see progress in that respect: the independent media’s criticism of the opposition, their ineffectiveness and lack of unity, has finally borne fruit, because there is now a certain gathering of strength around a common goal, after all, and we have Studio B opening up instead of further closing off in the direction of a particular political concept. So I think that this process has been reversed and I suppose you could call it the one positive effect of the repression we have at the moment. I actually think that the right way to fight repression is what is happening to our media at the moment: they’re becoming more open, more professional than before. That’s the only way, sticking to universal principles, the principles we and several of the most important media became known for at the beginning of the decade, at a time when that professionalism, that great energy, actually represented a driving force for the promotion of democratic change in this country. with that process it’s possible to take a positive step forward and create an efficient mechanism for self-defence, not only of the independent media, we’re not talking just about the independent media here but the self-defence of that part of society which wants democracy as soon as possible and also that part of society which is still unaware of the system around them, of the decay of society and the state and themselves. So I think that the independent media will play an important part in that enlightenment as well.

SIMONOVIC: The political struggle here has become a life and death battle. Whether or not we in the media wanted it, we’re on the political stage. We’re the weakest link in that chain, of course, and we’re the easiest to strike at and that’s why the authorities go for us so much. They know very well that they are in a poor position with the electorate and of course they know that that position will only get worse as time goes by and they will increase the pressure. I only hope that it will stay verbal. I think that while it remains verbal it does us no harm, it’s not going to reduce your ratings or your readership. But I’m afraid that there are going to be situations which won’t be solved with political compromises or elections and that we in the media will, in the meantime, be silenced against our will.

KOJADINOVIC: You have some of that, of course, but it’s not government and opposition we’re talking about any more, we’re talking about friends and enemies now. So we’re labelled enemies, enemies who must be destroyed at any cost, but this is why the people must understand - we’re not defending Studio B today, we’re not defending B2-92 today, or B92 yesterday, we’re not defending Radio Boom, we should in the first place be jointly defending ourselves, because all of us who are ‘enemies’ are under attack. The media are exposed, we stick out in the most, we are in some way what’s most unpleasant for them; according to them we’re a gun aimed and fired at them. But behind it all lies what we have had the opportunity of seeing in the streets of Belgrade: beatings, not only of students and children, but of people in general, and tomorrow nobody will be able to show that; they want to drag us into total darkness, not only to beat us there but to strangle us to death.

SIMONOVIC: ... We have clearly defined our relationship with the owners. Our editorial policy is determined by me. I answer to the board of management on which the owners have a majority. At the moment they demand that we are independent of both the authorities and the opposition, from any centre of political or economic power, because this is the only way to attract as many readers as possible and for our owners to be certain that their company is not being run by somebody else.

SIMONOVIC: Thanks to the number of copies we sell we’re in a somewhat better financial position and we can endure more pressure and more punishment than the others, but there’s a limit to that too. It wouldn’t be good if only we remained, but I think that the authorities will eventually understand that they too will be the opposition one day, whether they want it or not, peacefully or by force, and that they will need us more than anything.

SIMONOVIC: I hope they didn’t come to that conclusion by reading Blic. Those who say that are not able to find any confirmation of it in Blic itself, and they know it. It’s a planted story, a punch below the belt, that’s our mentality and street talk. What is obvious is that there has been no important and topical information which has been published by somebody else and not published by Blic. When it comes to information which could endanger the paper, in some cases we have been ahead of all Yugoslav media; people spread such rumours out of malice. I don’t care what they say; I wish them luck, that we survive together and live to see better times.

KOJADINOVIC: I think that it’s not possible, even if the were to shut us all down, generally I think that the basic strength of these independent media or alternative media or different media are the people working in them. They can shut down Studio B but they can’t shut down all the journalists working in Studio B or Radio B2-92 or anywhere else. If nothing else, these people would spread information by word of mouth, or they would find some other way. Current developments in technology offer far greater possibilities than ten years ago. Quite simply, if they close the media down they won’t close down the people from those media, new means of mass communication would quickly pop up everywhere. All of that would only be temporary, they can achieve some temporary success but, in general, they can’t stop the freedom of thinking, the freedom of public expression, information and the truth.

DMITROVIC: I’m afraid not. As far as I know your radio is connected to Studio B, to their equipment. These are, together with Radio Indeks, the only electronic media which can bring you a different opinion, an opinion which doesn’t suit the regime. You could do it by printing leaflets, like during the Occupation, and stuffing them in letter boxes or distribute them in the street until the guys in a van show up and beat you.

SIMONOVIC: It is, but those are the most dangerous times. When silence descends, when people don’t know anything, when there’s nowhere for them to let off steam, to buy newspapers, to turn on the radio to get information, when the silence is total, people begin acting irrationally and the authorities should know that. They should know that this would bring their violent ousting forward because, in total darkness and total silence, the people would take to the streets sooner, chaos would break out sooner. I take no comfort in that and I wouldn’t like it to happen and I think the authorities know that and this is why they’re letting us, under repression and pressure, of course, to be some kind of shock absorber for the people.

ZARKOVIC: Well we certainly wouldn’t start writing graffiti, nor would we engage in partisan journalism, print leaflets, nor do we believe in the option of keeping the Serbian population on Vreme’s course through the Internet; I think that’s simply pointless. If they found a way to destroy Vreme, Vreme would no longer be published and our plan has no A or B or C. There’s only A and I think that would be very efficient. Vreme’s resources, about 25 journalists of exceptional reputation, professional knowledge and thorough experience, would simply be put at the disposal of any editorial office which wanted them and I think that the remaining media would only be stronger with them than they had been before, if anybody remained at all of course. I’m not predicting a catastrophic scenario like Vreme ceasing to exist, we may start coming out with a reduced number of pages, they might confiscate all our property and all of that, but so what? Vreme is only a trade mark. Over these past ten years it’s essence has been people, if we can’t pay the fines we would launch a new publication, we might call it Time, for example.

GLISIC: We haven’t thought about it because it isn’t pleasant to think about it, you know. Nobody likes to dwell on anything seriously unpleasant, but we have imagined what we would do. I presume that the majority of the employees would decide to leave a non-independent NIN, a state-run NIN, they would try to do something else, possibly launch some other NIN, a parallel NIN or something else. I don’t have an answer right now.

MATIC: Of course there are a whole range of possibilities because, over the past ten years, we’ve had vast experience with various forms of repression, with various attempts to shut us down, few of them having any connection with the law. They were always supposed to be something that would take us by surprise, so there are several options which would certainly allow us to continue broadcasting under any circumstances, from the mildest to the worst option: the repeated occupation of our premises and confiscation of equipment. I mean it’s completely clear, based on the way we’ve worked so far, based on the regime’s experience with us, that we’ll continue working, that we’ll find a way to work and provide information.

KOJADINOVIC: No, we’re absolutely not thinking about our options right now. The option, therefore, is to fight with what we have, in the place where it’s installed. We’re not thinking about any partisan warfare; this isn’t the time for either Partisans or Chetniks; this is the 21st Century, we have to realise that. We’re staying where we are, we’ll defend ourselves with out trade, we’ll defend ourselves in every possible way and any result that would exceed the reasonable limits of defence would have to be blamed on the regime. To put it simply, we have a job to do, we shouldn’t be actin like some new army, we don’t need to arm ourselves, to relocate. We’re in our own country, we’re on our own terrain. If it comes to conflict it will be a case of some are lucky and some are not.

DMITROVIC: The capital is the centre of events and information is easier to come by. of so many television stations, only Studio B is different. In Nis or Kragujevac, however, there are more stations not controlled by the Milosevic regime and if they shut them all down, the people would be in darkness and would be more prepared to act.

DMITROVIC: God hasn’t given me the gift, and nor do I want to step into the shoes of Milja Vujanovic or Kleopatra but, unfortunately, I predicted all the major events for Serbs in this territory a year in advance. I pointed them out with an analytical approach and that’s on record. I wasn’t talking in a bar, I wrote it down, there are papers which published it and unfortunately events were even worse than I predicted and I said such bleak things that readers were calling in and saying they didn’t want to read the paper any more because my texts were too black. I’m afraid that positive developments are impossible here and I’m afraid that we have a lot of falling to do before we hit the bottom.

ZARKOVIC: We’ve seen that the authorities have no limits and that everything is possible. I have to admit something perverse: when I heard recently the talk about certain opposition leaders having been seen with Milosevic, and I don’t think that’s true, I was simply happy. It seemed to me that somebody though some political destabilisation of the situation was possible: if they’re talking they’re ready to trade, they’re aware of their own failures and weaknesses - politics is essentially about compromise. However I don’t think the story is true, which leaves us with the bare fact that we have the authorities defending themselves by instinct, they’re in a corner, surrounded on all sides. Maintaining your own position and an illusion of life in Serbia is very difficult right now, they’re like a caged, wounded animal, hitting out left and right and we really don’t know when this is all going to end. The information that they’d met and talked, which would cause disgust among the orthodox, revolution-oriented opposition, seemed to me essentially good news, that there was still a sense of reason; but if it all comes down to defending your own hide, then the role of media in all that is essentially pointless and there’s no use discussing it. We can see that the courts are meaningless, we’ll have courts martial or drumhead courts, the worst kind of courts. These are courts in which a man can lose his head in two minutes and I simply feel afraid. It’s a hysterical position which leads us to the possibility of predicting that something unpredictable will happen, this is what comes from an analysis of power at the moment. There’s one crazy scenario, I laughed when I heard it; a serious man told me this: a tyre will blow out in the centre of Belgrade, and it will blow out loudly because it will have been overinflated; at that moment someone will pick up a brick and smash the window of a jewellery store to steal something in panic and then chaos will ensue - department stores and supermarkets will be demolished, the police and army will come out onto the streets. This man predicted a modern version of Cukur-cesma, that something will erupt prematurely because I don’t believe that Serbs planned to conquer Kalimegdan fortress, but a Turk hit a child on the head and this resulted in Serbs going to the fortress and conquering it. This situation reminds me of that: something unpredictable could happen, something could cause it. It’s something suppressed, that energy, the bleak faces radiating essential anger; when somebody says good morning to you you’re not sure whether he means you well or wants to attack you. Nobody’s laughing except the loons. This is a general suppressed energy and biology dictates that it cant’ be held inside for long. If it bursts out in a spontaneous eruption it won’t amount to anything good: it would lead to bloodshed and that’s why I am indifferent about the media issue.